Your chance to be an advice columnist
I, along with all my friends, have been reeling in shock at the revelation that a couple in my close circle of friends have called their wedding off, and in fact have seemingly ended their relationship. I was to be a bridesmaid at this union of what I deemed to be one of the best matches of man and woman, and needless to say recent events have made me revisit the notion of blissful eternal coupledom with a healthy dose of cynicism.
Now, let me state very clearly at the outset that the Gilb and I are a generally very happy pair – yes, frustrated by the fact that a significant portion of our lives together have been maintained over a long distance, what with me in CT for nine months for work, and now him in Secunda indefinitely since April for the same reason – and maybe that’s because we haven’t spent enough continuous time in each other’s company for things to go too awry; most of the times we get to see each other, we spend very amiably, grateful for the opportunity to interact through that greatest of the five senses, touch.
But even so, there are a number of worrying questions that go through my head, and I’m positive through the head of every person in a relationship, whatever stage it is at. Given the break up of my good friends’ supposedly very strong pairing, naturally these questions have dominated my thoughts this week:
1 – It is nigh on impossible that two people will ever contribute exactly equally to the development, growth and sustenance of a relationship. At what point is one person doing too much and the other too little?
2 – No two people’s wants and needs will ever coincide in perfect harmony, so compromise from both parties is certainly required. How much compromise is okay? How much should you be putting your needs ahead or behind of your relationship’s, or even your partner’s, needs?
3 – On the topic of compromise, how much should you be willing to change your ways and attitudes to improve the harmony of the relationship? What are acceptable things to ask your partner to change, and indeed, to be expected to change about yourself?
4 – When cracks and strains do start to show, how much time should you dedicate to relationship maintenance and repair? If after significant effort, things still appear not to be improving, how do you know whether to stick it out longer or admit defeat, and move on?
All answers are welcome, enlighten me oh learned (and perhaps more experienced) ones…
posted by Third World Ant @ 9:02 am
22 Comments:
Ant your post has touched a nerve. For a start, I wish that I had broken my engagement off. I KNEW that things were not really okay - we were fighting a great deal, and deep down it just felt wrong. I just thought it was pre wedding jitters. Funny too that when my ex and I split, a great many people were surprised. They thought we were perfect for one another, we were not.
1)Swings and roundabouts. It's all about give and take and give and take and somehow it should all balance out in the end.
Too much in any direction spells trouble.
2) I think there's good compromise and bad compromise. If you are addressing a behaviour on your part that is destructive and compromising helps this out - great. If you start to lose your essence, again...trouble. I didn't know who the hell I was when I left because I compromised too much.
3)See above.
4) Are you really talking? Are you talking and moving on from the issues you are talking about? Or are you talking and reamining still? If you get stuck, if no amount of talki ng helps - then you should move on.
Could carry on all day about this one actually. I have spent so much time in the last year unpicking the make up of relationships.
My rule? Trust your instinct, beyond your fear. That's all you need to do.
Thanks for this, Jam. Trusting your instinct is the best you can do, but as you admitted yourself, although you know better, the heart is often at odds with the head...
I think it's more a case of fear causing a disconnect with the heart and the head. I was afraid of leaving because I was afraid of being on my own - better the devil you know. But in the end, I should have been scared of staying because that was much more damaging in the end.
Morning Ant,
I’m agreeing with Jam 100%, and we are all human and tend to make mistakes.
I am probably the last person to give any advice... but what I stick by is;
Always do to others what you would do to yourself. And to communicate with one another is very important. Always let the other person know your likes and dislikes (but still try to compromise when needed.) And like Jam said; To compromise too much will make you a different person in the end… and you will probably break up coz he would say… ”You were never like this! Why did you change?”
But like I said, I am no expert so just go with your feelings and you will be fine!
If I may ask, how long have you and The Gilb been together? I have never met you, but in some way you sound like a golden couple!! Even though you don’t see each other all the time.
I'm also with Jam on this one. (Isn't she a wise woman that Jam?)
1) how much compromise is too much?
If both partners are willing to do the work then it's ok I reckon. But what one finds over and over again is this: women tend to overcompensate. It's in our genes. As a result, men undercompensate. As a natural balancing act.
It needs to balance out. What I found in my relationships is that I'm a bad communicator. Communication is so paramount in every relationship and freindship. That means listening as well as asking. And it has to come from both sides. It's the both sides that fucks things up, because nothing is perfect all the time.
"trust your instinct beyond your fear." Good one Jam. When you're away from your second half more than together, you don't usually fight. You want to keep the peace - I found this when Ex S went overseas for work a lot. However, having an argument often brings you closer to someone if you both come to a good conclusion.
You guys have done well long distance. Very well. Twisted Koeksuster (on my blogroll) did long distance for TWO AND A HALF YEARS. Amazing. But said they were BOTH IN IT and had no desire to find or experience new people at that stage.
Are you ready to find and experience the new? Or work on the old? This is something you must address seriously in your head my little Ant.
xxx
Hi
I have been reading your blog for a few weeks on and off and when I clicked on today your post also really hit me. I have just broken up with my boyfriend based on the issue of compromise. We are in love and there is no absence of emotion but only an absence of time, we just couldn't seem to compromise our time enough and ended up breaking up based on pure frustration. It was a break-up fuelled by emotion and as a result I am constantly questioning whether I gave it my all and if I tried hard enough.
I agree with Jam and Somali that communication is important and I think that a problem becomes an issue when you keep talking about something but find no workable solutions.
My boyfriend and I would constantly talk about how we needed to make time for each other but we never did. It was the only thing we fought about and it eventually drove us apart.
I definitely don't have the answers, my sister (who is in a very happy and healthy relationship) said that there are no real rules, she says she breaks them all the time since her and her boyfriend broke up for six months and got back together and have now been happily back together for two years. She always said she'd never get back together with an ex because you break up for a reason and you need to remember that reason, but when it happened she said it just felt right.
My other sister moved in with her now husband after they dated for two weeks.
But my third sister seemed to follow all the manuals - she dated her man for five years, they went to pre-marital counselling to be sure they were ready for this step and they were the picture-perfect couple - everyone envied them. They got divorced six months after they were married.
I'm still searching for answers myself but I just try to remind myself that communication is important and so is setting boundaries - I consider the things that I am non-negotiable on and set them as boundaries. But what do I know - I'm still learning!
On the up side - I know of two blissfully married couples who made long distance work for FOUR YEARS so the odds are not against you and your beau!
I'd like to offer a man's perspective. I've recently (i.e. Monday) broken off a 7 year relationship (must be in the air at the moment). We survived extended terms of long-distance, a couple of break-ups and get-back-togethers, personal setbacks and family traumas, 3 years of living together, and a month of counselling. We're so bound up in each other's lives it's frightening - we share so many friends that ultimately, however amicable we try to be, it's probably going to get ugly.
We were also the 'perfect couple', and it was also a huge shock to everyone (it's still reverberating around the various circles). Only very close friends are ever really privy to the real power struggles within a relationship, and most people are adept at hiding these when necessary. And then there's always the really private stuff between you and your (ex) partner that no-one knows about.
I agree with Benny - there are no rules. You try for as long as you feel it's right, and then you stop. Use your happiness level as a guide. Rationality is a useful tool, but generally we make decisions with our hearts.
I also agree with Jam - if you are talking, but you just keep talking in circles, the same issues keep surfacing and you never seem to be moving forward, then perhaps you need to reassess your situation.
As a guy, I understand that my biggest pain will come when I see her with someone else. That's gonna require a maturity I'm not sure I possess yet. I guess it's a 'possession' thing, but then I have an over-active imagination.
In terms of long-distance relationships, you're right in that it's relatively easy to get along with your partner, and it might 'smooth over' problems. I've read that enforced seperation prolongs the 'Romantic Lust/Love' part of a relationship (generally thought to last up to 2 years) and delays the onset of normality ('Companion Love').
If you really want to test a relationship, move in together.
1.) While I do agree with Jam on the give and take (nice analogy btw), if you really want it to work, just give and give:) It should be all about her (or him) to you.
2.) Of course your wants and needs won't coincide. Be flexible, you know how much you can handle. For me say, her wanting to change careers to teaching and asking me to help out with all the stress and admin and financial strain that goes with it would be cool. Her wanting to change careers to adult services and asking me to help out with all the STD's and stalkers and drives to the local strip joint would not.
3.) Maybe I'm just really picky, but the people I choose to have a serious relationship with would have to be pretty compatible to start off with. If you sleep on the wrong (right) side of the bed - you know where the door is:)
4.) Who knows. Till you want to kill them? You know how much you love someone, and when the hurt > the love, chances aer you should cut your losses..
It's a small gesture, because it's not really answering your questions, as much as sharing what I've learnt...
My partner and I have been together 4.5 years, which is only massively impressive when you know how young we are (I'm 23 and he's 24). I was 18 going on 19 when we got together.
When varsity finished I went over to the UK by myself. When i got here it was soooo hard, and i started second guessing the strength of my relationship and whether I had been fooling myself, maybe it was so easy because of the varsity context. And, most terrifyingly of all, I realised I'd spent my entire adult life so far with one person - and started wondering if I'd let this define me.
This was exasperated by the fact that Jono and I dealt with the separation so differently. I'd cry and cry on the phone and get frustrated by his constant optimism (statements like "I'll see you in ten weeks time, just ten weeks"). See, I'm kind of a supremely emotional being, and he's stoically rational.
Now he's here and we've moved in to a flat together in a city where we only know each other,so we're always in each other's space, and its made me realise that I was looking for problems where there werent any, because my idea of relationships was somewhat romanticised and in truth, they're just a case of trust and work.
I left a job to come to Edinburgh, because he was going to be studying here, and I could be resentful of that, but the job was not important to me, I was only doing it because it was there, but the studying is important to him, and when the roles are reversed and I want to move or another equally big decision, he's said he'll follow me, and I trust that he means it.
I realise now that I do know who I am with and without him, but the relationship works because he knows me, even the annoying stuff (and we're the epitome of opposites attract). EG: It's accepting that his agnosticism (sp?) has no impact on my belief (no matter how undefined) that there is a higher power of some sort. If we get married, it'll be in a church because to not do so would violate my wishes, but doing so doesnt not violate his.
Mostly, I agree with everything Jam said, but just said it is a different way. :)
Commitment is a choice which needs to be consciously made by both parties. Not just a spur of the moment thing.
Jointly decide on the guidelines at the START. Define the channels of communications and the protocols you will follow.
I know this all sounds a bit strange and formal, but its about relationships. Do you deal with clients on a whim, no there are guidelines and contractual obligaions laid dowm at the start and committed to on paper.
This gives you a starting point and if you think the other party is being unreasonable, refer to what was agreed.
In business, if the relationship is no longer beneficial, you will end it, jointly. But trivial items should be covered by what is agreed.
On a personal level, these small things often build because we have no agreement to fall back and may ultimately blow up later.
Or I may just be talking complete shit as it's late Thurs afternoon and I don't really feel like working.
Good luck.
Oh, and I totally agree with what's been said about communication. Jono and my little tiffs, used to turn into massive arguments because when I'd ask what he thought or why he hadnt said anything, he'd say "I dont know" - which made my blood boil.
It took a year for me to get to the real meaning: "i dont know what to say to that" or "I'm not sure what you're asking of me". And the same time for him to learn that I am a person who needs the reassurance of more than quietly listening. Now he speaks a little more and i rant a little less and the problem is solved!
Its so interesting to see how differently we see relationships, from the romantic to the buisnesslike. I think that when you get that close to someone, when you share so much of another persons life for so long, the line between love and comfort gets blurred. I think there is something in the water cause so many of my friends at the moment are going through these relationship niggles, and when I ask the question "so why do you stay?" The standard answer is, "because I love him or her." I have a new question, do you love him/her, or has him/her become a habit. It might be a harsh way to look at things, but then again, I am a happily single girl not willing to settle.
i think when making sense of relationships the most valuable thing you can do you for your partner and your self is be honest about your emotions what ever they be. Sometimes brutal honesty is better than smiling and nodding and just going along with it, and finding yourself 40 and unhappy with someone you knew deep down wasn't right for you. Still, break ups are never a pleasant thing to deal with at the time, but I'm sure things will work out they way they should.
Hey guys
Thanks for all the comments - a lot from people who've never said anything before :)
Just so you know, I'm not really writing this post about myself, it's more out of concern for the Gilb's perspective. One could safely say that I wear the pants in the relationship, and while I'd like to believe that he willingly participates in everything I plan, I never quite know that he genuinely feels this way. At some point, the guy might end up resenting me, which is the same fear my friend who broke up with her fiance' expressed.
Somali - just gone four years, almost half spent long-distance. There have been some rocky moments (usually initiated by me, admittedly), but generally we're really happy.
Dear Peas - all good from my side, at least :)
Boldly Benny - my relationship with the Gilb started out the way you describe your recent relationship - in our case, we overcame that problem, and now we usually attend functions together, although it is understood that if some space is needed it is given (although him living in Secunda is all the space we need at the moment, trust me!) I'm sure your last relationship has taught you some things about yourself and your needs in a relationship, and the next one will be very different. I like the points you make with your sisters - there are no rules, and as Jam said, follolw your instinct.
B - good luck moving on, dude. There must have been significant added stress in the relationship knowing everyone thought you were the perfect couple - in my case, we're often criticised as giving each other too much space, so there's none of that "image" to uphold. We really wanted to move in together this year (this was driven largely by me, although the Gilb eventually agreed he wanted to test it out), and then he took a job in Secunda and that opportunity was lost. Sigh! But chin up, you, and hopefully you have a girl on your arm before the ex does, it may help a little when seeing her with a new man on the arm :)
Pete - 1) I disagree here, mate. there really is the danger that one person gives all, while the other's a little more selfish. And I do think it's important to maintain a personal identity, to be known as 'Pete', not just 'Pete of Pete & x'
2) I won't be making this demand any time soon, so I'm safe there!
3) I believe on some level, everyone's compatible with everyone else. We're so multifaceted, that if we took the time to get to know any person, there'd be common threads. But yeah, you wouldn't want to go to that effort with everyone, so finding obvious compatibilities (and hopefully many more subtle ones too, later) to start with makes it easier.
4) Easier said than done, I think. But at some point everyone hopefully gets the message.
Kate - "I am who am I with or without him" - I love that. Go girl! And I totally hear you about the man responding "I don't know". Patience is very necessary...
Rev - don't worry man, you always talk shit ;)
Actually, I've sat the Gilb down before and we discussed imposing guidelines. Funnily enough, just knowing they're there has avoided any need to revisit them - they help you make better decisions for relationships, simply because you're better able to understand what the other person feels.
Anon - very, very true. Is it love, or is it just a comfort zone? Although, not all habits are bad ones, and in a relationship, no-one can really be happy if they aren't comfortble being around the other person - I always say you should be able to behave in front of your partner as you would if they weren't there; if you can't do that, you're not truly comfortable being around them.
Its probably all just bullshit anyway, dicussing ground rules? Way to clinical for me. I just want to love her and she loves me and everything works. Unrealistic, of course, but I think that attitude will get you a lot farther than setting up all the options (for 'when' it falls apart) right at the start.
Though if I had a buck for every time I thought I knew EXACTLY what I wanted from a significant other, and then got to know someone that fit that and just didn't have the sort of feeling i thought I would, I would be a rich bastard.
Anyway, everyone knows if you have the choice between the perfect girl and the punk chick with nipple rings that says the f-word in front of your mom, you're gonna pick option 2..
I think I just learned something profound about myself and why I'm still single.
it's such a complex topic. it's a gamble if you ask me. go to a roulette table and try and imagine what number the ball will land on, put your life saving on that number. when the ball settles, you either hit it spot on and grow old with that person or you miss and you have a messy break up, eat ice-cream, cry and tell potential future mates that you're not looking for a relationship. the chances of it missing are much better.
it's all part of the human comedy. you're just a passenger in the journey of life. put your seatbelt on and hope the airbags deploy because the harder you resist, the worse it gets.
good times :-)
As the person in question in this post there are just a few comments I'd like to make. (Only possible because I'm receiving some intensive therapy!)
1) Are you really talking? My take on this is rather - Are you really listening? To yourself and your partner? After many days of introspection I have realised that there were many times I just refused to HEAR what was really being said and as a result forged ahead with something that I thought we both wanted. I also refused to listen to myself and thereby did not acknowldge my own doubts.
2) You are so right about the fear thing! I was so afraid of being alone that I refused to allow myself to acknowledge that I wasn't really happy.
3) Are you both willing or able to really share yourself with the other person? There is nothing more demoralising or depressing that fighting with a person to share their soul with you. And when push comes to shove - no matter how much I love him I cannot accept that I was never let across the threshold of his soul!
4) Committment IS a choice and NEVER comes naturally! You do need to make a concious decision EVERY day to be committed to someone else because you never will have exactly the same dreams and goals, and choosing to walk away from a commitment that you have worked on every day for six-and-a-half years is the hardest thing anyone can ever do.
5) The public (and in my case even the private) expression of a relationship cannot be trusted. Many people that seem to fit together perfectly may not. The rot in a piece of wood often starts on the inside and the log's structure is often ruined way before you see it on the outside.
And finally...
The breakup is very recent still but I ACHE every day, I feel naked without my rings, I hate being the bad guy (cause lets face it I am) and I have lost my BESTFRIEND butI have realised that...
I am OK with me and even if I never have this kind of love again, I'm still OK with me.
this is so freaky it baffles me, I wrote about sort of the same vibe last night (the whole couple thing) after watching 'The Break Up'& your blog has just gone 'ping, ping, ping' in my head!
I'm the last person to give advice, I've never been in a relationship (I think I'm generally a) far too fussy & b) scared of being hurt) & it scares me to think that I possibly one day may be in the same predicament as most people...but why would you want to put yourself there? I don't know, can anyone help, tell me oh great & omniscient yodas! I think I've kind of fallen head over heels for someone who I am having a something with (it's a long story) & these emotions are driving me mad...all I do is think about him, wonder how he is & try to think really hard what he looks like when he's smiling or laughing (a look so gorgeous he brought me to my knees...take that as you will!)He's in Cape Town (home) & I'm in tiny litte Gtown, case closed, but I'm home in 2 months for good!
But back to what you're saying, I think the crux of it does come down to communication & a general want to be with that other person; if there isn't then why waste time right? There are other fish in the sea to munch on!
It's all so confusing, I need direction...I need a drink!Whatever makes your bum hum? I'll be sure to read your blog more often, it's rather refreshing & nice!
Just a question?
How can I trust myself when I managed to fool myself about the state of my happiness in a relationship for so long? How can I trust any relationship that I have with anybody?
Possibly hit on a larger, longer therapy issue? hey?
BTW the link to my site in your sidebar is incorrect. you'll need to remove the "/blog" at the end. thanks
Actually it's ATW who blogger keeps booting out who said ...
Coming in a bit late on this one but this is how I do it. (since 13 March 1995!)
I'm mostly with Pete on this despite him getting pretty short thrift. Though Jam's instinct trusting certainly does count. As Goethe says:"the hardest thing to do is act in accordance with your thinking".
1) It often feels like give & give. But it as Jam says it's actually a bit of both give & take.
2) Noone should expect anyone to be someone that they are not. But if the person is someone who is considerate of others he/she will naturally compromise.
3) See 2. But if it's a part of who he is he was probably like that when you met him. Don't expect a bloke who met at hockey fines meeting to give up drinking or wanting to play sport on the weekend. Generally I don't think you can ever really change who someone is.
4) Here it comes down to a bit of utilitarian arithmetic (measurement though is a bit tricky). Is the sum of happiness of (He + She + Others affected) likely to be greater together or apart?
One only asks the question 4 when things are pretty tough and fortunately for me I come with the greater "stay" sum every time.
As for maintenance and repair that's kind of an ongoing process regardless of how happy things are.
O-D: you cynic, you! I'd like to think relationships are a bit more manageable than the outcome of a throw at roulette. or is that russian roulette, eh?
My dear anon - I just want everyone to know how brave I think you are. It would have been so easy to deny your concerns and marry the man you've been wanting to marry for so long... big hugs, and many kisses. You're stronger than you realise, and you will have dealt with the issues a lot sooner than your partner in crime will. xXx
Hey there Keighley - sounds like some one is in L.O.V.E! I don't think you need to worry for a while - the beginning of a good relationship is always heady and fun and exciting and.... too many other great things to list here. Once you've decided the person is worth the effort of dealing with the admin of a relationship, then the challenge begins. (although as ATW points out, so long as He + She + Others > He, She, Others, the challenge is all worth it).
Anon again - We definitely have more tolerance for wrong-doing by our other halves than we do with other people, so it's only natural that you'd "pull the wool over your eyes" for him, babe. I personally don't think you have any problems judging the state of your relationship with anyone else, and as you said, you knew things in your relationship weren't okay, you only chose to deny them. So... speak to the therapist about it, but I'm convinced she'll come to the same conclusions as I have.
Wit - I like your change vs compromise thinking - I guess it's a fine line, and one that can only be determined by each individual being changed / compromising.
I think another important thing about compromise is that the younger you are the less you should compromise. Your twenties are a time for learning and exploring, not to trade-off on who you are.
And once you know yourself well, compromise becomes more natural because you know what is it important to you and what you can let go of.
Oh and as bad as things are, make you KNOW its over and you have learnt whatever lesson there was to learn - or you just do it all over again.
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