Forbidden relationships
I’ve been dating the Gilb for four years now, and have finally come to accept that there is a huge stigma attached to our union – that is, the union of a white English-speaking South African and a white Afrikaans-speaking South African.
My experience has led me to believe that this stigma is greater than that I would experience if I were dating a non-white South African, a foreigner from some ‘frowned-upon’ nation (e.g. North Korea) or perhaps even a female.
I can’t begin to list the number of times I’ve met people and started chatting to them, during which the inevitable question “Do you have a boyfriend?” pops up, after which further elaboration reveals that he is Afrikaans, and the response has been “Why on earth are you dating someone who’s Afrikaans?”
It’s like English people think they’re better than Afrikaners – maybe because they have formed the misconceived notions that they’re:
1) smarter (I can guarantee that the Gilb is a lot smarter than at least 90% of these people I’ve spoken to), or
2) better looking (hell no, not in my mind anyway), or
3) more open-minded (nope, I sure as hell would not be dating someone I thought was a racist or a bigot of any kind; besides, English colonial history does not paint a picture of a nation being any more tolerant of indigenous people than Afrikaans history is), or
4) classier (class is overrated if it equates to being snobbish, assuming that having money makes you being a better human being, or assuming that you can judge a person because the job they perform in society is ‘beneath you’)
Of course, I get similar hostility from black people about dating an Afrikaner – and here, it is understandably harder for me to be angry at their prejudice – but I have always been comforted by the fact that any of these people who have subsequently met the Gilb have very quickly realised you can’t judge everybody by their cultural backgrounds – sometimes, you find you have more in common with them than you do with people of your own ‘kind’. (Which is precisely what happened for me and the Gilb – we just clicked in a way that none of our previous partners from our own cultural backgrounds has done for us before).
What makes me more ashamed about the whole thing is that no Afrikaans person I’ve ever spoken to has ever shown the remotest concern that one of ‘theirs’ has strayed from the path to date one of ‘ours’. Why can’t us Engelse show the same tolerance?
posted by Third World Ant @ 11:08 am
28 Comments:
As an English-speaking white South African woman, allow me throw in my 2c. Afrikaans guys are the BEST kissers, dancers and "vryers" out there! Us English chicks should really be dating more of them... ;-)
As an English-speaking white South African woman, allow me throw in my 2c. Afrikaans guys are the BEST kissers, dancers and "vryers" out there! Us English chicks should really be dating more of them... ;-)
As an English-speaking white South African woman, allow me throw in my 2c. Afrikaans guys are the BEST kissers, dancers and "vryers" out there! Us English chicks should really be dating more of them... ;-)
I dated two Afrikaans guys as an english speaking south african. And yes, it is stigmatised for some reason. I do hate the way people generalise culturally.
michelle - thanks x 3! Date away! I could even introduce you to a few if they're in short supply on your side ;)
jam - tell me about it. it's a wonder there's any inter-cultural/interracial socialising at all, given the way we judge each other
That's bizarre, I can't believe people give you a hard time about the fact that you date an Afrikaans guy.
I suppose some people still like to box people, I'm not sure if it's a way of trying to understand or figure people out.
I constantly throw people for a loop because of my colouring and constantly get asked if I'm Jewish, coloured or Greek. Someone was even so bold as to ask if I was the "product" of a mixed race couple.
Added to this, my boyfriend's surname can be confusing if it is misspelt so I've had people who haven't met him come up to me and ask "Is he black?" in a whisper tone while rubbing their cheek with their finger.
WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE? It's nuts!
I've been waiting for a post like this for a while now.
Your Gilb is a special special boy, who treats you like gold, adds cultural diversity to your life (as you do with his, being an Itye), is intelligent and sweet.
All those who think otherwise should really just fuck off.
Hi Ant,
I would have rather thought that they would ask you why you are not dating an Italian... Not trying to be nasty but that’s what I would have thought. Because I have a Greek friend, and I know his parents want him to date a Greek girl.
Being an Afrikaans white female, I will never ever think that why an English person is dating an Afrikaans person?? As long as he loves you, you love him; treat you right and with respect WHY NOT!!!
People can be sooo judgemental!!
Anyhow enough said!! Congrats with your four years!!
I am too dating a Afrikaner fellow and was at first teased until my friends really got to know him. he has better manners than most english speaking men out there. My friends were suprised I had landed such a decent guy. (With friends like these...)
I prefer spending time with his family too, who are pure Afrikaans and accept me regardless.
People cannot help but judge - all we can hope is that personality will triumph.
benny - I'm constantly surprised that we've managed to send humans to other planets and clone animals, yet on the social front, we remain very far behind.
peas - indeed they can!
somali - my father has long ago given up on that wish! (in fact my parents adore the Gilb to bits)
lollipop - oh boy! I've got a bit of a minefield in the parents department, his folks are not really my biggest fans at all... not sure if it's because I don't speak a lot of Afrikaans to them, or because I appear to have corrupted their son, or I just smell funny, but ja. Consider your situation ideal!
And you're ultimately right about the judgement thing - although it does irritate me immensely that people should judge others based on their cultural backgrounds, if at the end of the day you meet different people and are able to overcome your preconceptions of what kind of people they are, then all is well.
It's interesting how the majority from both Afrikaans and English camps tend to have and "us" and "them" attitude. Like the Northern vs Southern suburbs thing here in CPT, or Pretoria vs Jo'burg.
What's enlightening though is the individual "uitskieters" you encounter - who usually shake their heads at the moron majority mentioned above.
Personally, I tend to be more interested in English women from a philosophical/religious perspective, as English-speaking people tend to more open-minded in general. I say in general because there are exceptions: I'm Afrikaans, so I see it as a mindset thing, and not a language thing at all!
The thing is, with every culture, you need to know there are two sides. Just like you get the upper middle class you also get the lower middle class, and despite what every liberal hippie wants to think, the gap does make a big difference in cultural perceptions. For years, we have been treated to SA television showcasing the average Afrikaner as a low class pleb from Geduld who knows how to swear, drink, mess with cars and treat women like shit. Hence the stigma. When in fact, while you do get these rats in Afrikaans and English culture, you'll find that the average upper middle class Afrikaans white male (which is a dying breed) is brought up to respect women MORE than thier English peers. Therefore the upper middle class Afrikaans boy is a better catch, than , say, Prices HArry and WIlliam.
Martin - mo^re daar! Funny how different things are from my perspective. The Afrikaans people I know (which, apart from one exception, are all people I've met through the Gilb) are all far more open-minded than the English people I hang out with, male or female.
Insane - I agree 1000% (except, I'd not turn Prince Wills down!)
Afrikaans people more open-minded? It is quite interesting that you see it that way...
From my perspective, a larger percentage of Afrikaans people are brought up in a very conservative, religious way than their English counterparts. But in the same breath, I've also realised that growing up conservatively vs liberally doesn't always go the direction you'd expect. In my experience, people who grow up conservatively (in religious context specifically) and then figure things out for themselves, tend to be much more open-minded than those who grew up liberally to start off with. Growing up liberally I think tends to make you take being "open-minded" for granted, which IMHO often leads to ignorance. Growing up conservatively on the other hand makes you see both sides of the coin; because it's difficult to go from being liberal to conservative, as opposed to the other way round, and you end up being more mult-dimensional as a result.
Does that make any sense?!
Have never dated an Afrikaans guy so I can't comment :)
However , 'we just clicked in a way'
Is he also a blogger??
click...click...click...click
Woah! Michelle really wanted to make her point.
BTW, we're not too concerned about trivialities (like language) here in Cape Town. We know that the only thing that counts is money.
martin - heaps of sense, actually. although, some people will rebel against conservatism for the sake of rebelling, rather than for being truly more open-minded...
But back to my original point: I'm not arguing whether Afrikaners/Englishers are more conservative/open-minded, but rather pointing out that I've experienced a lot of 'prejudice' towards the relationship from people who have never met my boyfriend, and the sole premise for that prejudice is the fact that he's Afrikaans. Afrikaners have never judged our relationship for the fact that I'm English.
rev: lol! I tried to persuade him to start a blog, which he tried to hide from me (eventually gave in and told me the link), but he's not updated it since the first entry. For a great prank, send him an email (thegilb@gmail.com) and tell him to hurry up and write another entry! (his blogsite is http://mediumman.blogspot.com)
kyk - tell me about it, you gold-digging multi-lingual person, you...
As the one Afrikaaner (I think) that the Ant does'nt know via the Gilb, I feel obliged to add MY 2 cents worth.
Having attended English schools and studied in English people are always rather suprised (shocked really) when they first learn that I am an Afrikaner. And the majority of comments are something like:
"Wow, you don't seem Afrikaaans at all. Like, you know, you can like speak English, like. Wow!!! You don't look like your father works for the post office, your mother wears curlers in her hair and you brother is a mechanic. Wow"
I find this kind of attitude incredibly offensive. I am proud of my heritage and culture and although I know there are many reasons for the stereotypes it still is insulting. Why should I be made to feel like I should apologise for or be embarrased by the language and culture I grew up with and still cherish?
On the other hand; I have recently met many more Afrikaners (other than my family) than I have known in the past and they're reaction is to assume that I've rejected my roots because I speak English well and don't necessarily share their outlook on life!
I guess you just can't win!
Finally, it definitly is a class thing. The English speaking population of this country immediatly assume that they are "better" just because they speak English (and often quite poorly!). I suppose they have to justify why their ancestors subjected mine to such cruelty and humiliation!
PS Please excuse the hanging participle
Anonymous, I completely share your sentiments and experience.
Like Bart Simpson said: "You're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't". (I've found this also applies when dealing with women, BTW).
Anon - why thank you, my only non-Gilb Afrikaans friend. You carry the banner high for your people, there's no doubt of that.
Martin - damned if you do, damned if you don't: must be especially tough dealing with Afrikaans women then! Anon, what do you say about that? ;)
I find this rather sad.
It was a real eye opener to me when I moved to SA from Rhodesia. There were may Afrikaaners in Rhodesia, and the farming area in which I grew up was predominantly Afrikaans, as was the primary school I went to. Yet there was none of the angst which existed between Afrikaans and English in SA.
A good number of my family have married across the divide. I suggest you treat the issue with the disdain it deserves.
Ooooppppsss... Sorry for making my point so many times! Dodgy connection that day. But it does bear repeating!
Oh, by all means send some lekker Afrikaaners my way. I could do with a few.
afrikaans/english/black/white - it is no concern of other people who you choose. it matters not what others think as long as you're happy. so there!
Inyoka, chewwie - already in that mindset. fuck 'em!
Michelle - send me a self-addressed, stamped envelope and one will be coming your way shortly!
There will always be people who get hung up on the us-them thing. Indeed it seems to be human nature to dwell, xenophobically, on that which makes us different. But what is magical about SA, given its history, is how many people have completely discarded any traces of such racism (or any other 'ism').
Over the years I have been accepted, embraced and genuinely loved by more people in SA than we have anywhere else in the world. (And I tend to date people of ethnicities far different from my own!)
Sure, it is not a perfect country, it is not a perfect world. But there is something special about SA.
really interesting thread. An added twist, I am a foreigner (afrikaans-speaking american) and have dated both afrikaans and english south africans. click much more readily with afrikaners.
michelle - top i agree about your comment regarding the merit of afrikaans guys - definitely first-rate. i can't wait for a nice boere ou in my life again!
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